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| Kwami Sefa Kayi |
The minister spoke at length on the issue of airlifting supporters to the 2015 AFCON, answered questions concerning his Ministry's refusal to make known to Ghanaians the budget for the tournament and parried accusations that the $25,000 reward given each player by the Ghana National Petroleum Coporation (GNPC), the lead sponsor of the senior national team was unnecessary.
But some of the questions posed by the host clearly did not sit down well with Mr Ayariga who felt precious airtime should have rather been spent discussing the commitment and determination of the entire playing body to achieve meaningful results for Ghanaians.
He also openly admitted that he was upset with some journalists who he claimed were on a mission - as evidenced in some of his replies - "to distract us from focusing on what will happen in Equatorial Guinea in terms of our participation in the tournament but we refused to the distracted. We focused on what we were going there to do; to try and win the cup".
Below is the full transcript of the interview conducted by Kwami Sefa Kayi (KSK) with Mahama Ayariga (MA)....
KSK: Would you say in all of it, it was good (Black Stars performance in Equatorial Guinea)?
MA: Oh absolutely. Absolutely fantastic in terms of football, performance; it was absolutely fantastic. Our team did a great job. Our boys performed excellent, disciplined, good football, entertained the world and made a very good impression of themselves to everybody who watched it.
KSK: Even though you wanted to come to Ghana with the cup; the trophy I mean?
MA: Yeah, I mean we touched it but we couldn’t (Minister starts laughing).
KSK: Between when we left and now, you have come under very heavy criticisms from various quarters. Let me start with what is not obvious yet but some said you attended a draw. Is it true?
MA: Yeah, we attended a draw. What’s wrong with that?
KSK: Okay, good question. Some have criticized as unnecessary, how would you justify it?
MA: Well, I think that there were other Ministers of Sports from other countries there. We were all invited. So, we went. What was the problem? You go for a draw, what’s wrong with that? It’s just [what do they call it] one hour 30 minutes from here. It’s just like travelling to Tamale. So, if there’s an event in Tamale and then I pick a flight and then go and come, what’s wrong with that?
KSK: I mean so that’s your answer to those who criticize you for attending a draw which they thought was unnecessary.
MA: What kind of discussion if I attended a draw?...Ministers were invited from their various countries to come and then I went. And don’t forget that I’m also lobbying for Ghana to host AFCON 2017. So, every gathering where Executive Committee members of CAF are in attendance, I have to take advantage and get there and push our case for 2017 [every gathering].
KSK: This is news. This is news to me (Ghana seeking to host AFCON 2017).
MA: I know that there will be CAF Executive Committee members present. We will make an effort to be there and to lobby there for our bid.
KSK: So, Ghana is lobbying to host 2017; its official?
MA: Absolutely. I mean it’s been official for long. We even formed a Committee and we’re working feverishly towards it. And most of time that I was in Equatorial Guinea during the tournament, once the boys were playing ball; I was busy [you know] lobbying also with our the Executive Committee members, meeting them one by one pressing home our case for hosting the tournament in 2017.
KSK: I see. That’s interesting. Now that you’ve confirmed it, glad to hear that. Another area where you were criticized in your absence was the fact you were with them through their Spain trip and all the way to Equatorial Guinea and that it was back to the same question; unnecessary for you to have spent all that time with them. It was as if there was nothing else to do for the Minister.
MA: I was never in Spain. I never went to Spain. I’ve never been to stay with the team. So, they should get their facts right when they’re having discussions.
KSK: The Minister was not in Spain?
MA: I was never in Spain. I never went to Spain. Ask the footballers whether they saw me in Spain.
KSK: Well, it was mentioned that you were in Spain with them.
MA: That is what most of your people do. They say things that they haven’t seen. They haven’t seen me in Spain but they say I was in Spain. So, it’s for the listeners to judge what kind of reporters we have.
KSK: Now to the biggest one; the budget!
MA: And let’s get back to Equatorial Guinea. I wasn’t in Equatorial Guinea throughout the tournament. I was actually not in Equatorial Guinea for the first match. I was actually not well. So, I was even in the hospital. I watched the match from the hospital bed.
KSK: Where?
MA: Well, I don’t want to tell you my doctors but I watched the match from the hospital.
KSK: In Ghana or outside Ghana?
MA: Ghana, here in Accra. I wasn’t there for the first match and I flew there. In fact, I felt I had to rush there to see what I could do to encourage them after that first match. So, I had to drive by road to Lome and from Lome, I caught a flight to Malabo. From Malabo, I caught a flight to Bata. From Bata, I went by road to Mongomo and got there just before the second match to talk to them and to encourage them to do their best to win that match against Algeria.
And immediately after the match, the following morning; I packed my bag. I was leaving to come back to Accra and the boys said; No. They will not let me go. I had to stay with them. You know, in football, they tend to be very superstitious. They were like, oh you brought us luck; so how can you go back. So, they even gave me one of their rooms because I had no accommodation there. So, they moved into a room and gave me one of their rooms to stay with them and so, I spent time with them for the preliminary stages.
But after that I came back to Accra. I came back. And then, [when they got to the] when they were starting the quarter finals, then I went back to Malabo to go and then try and encourage them also to go through the quarter finals and the Semi-finals; and I came back to Accra. It’s just 1 hour 30 minutes flight. It’s like going to Tamale and coming back. So, I came back and then I went back on Saturday, the day before the finals.
KSK: What was the reason for the back and forth? Was it because it was a very short flight?
MA: Yeah, it’s a very short flight. So, if you have administrative work to do, you can come. A minister, if you get to spend just three hours behind your desk; you can achieve a lot and take all the decisions and then you move. So, that was how I kept moving to make sure the things are sorted out.
KSK: Let’s come to the biggest soft point of the budget. Did you know that before you left how much we were going to spend?
MA: Of course, we did have a budget. I mean the way that it is done is that you’ll [you know]; at the beginning of the year, like any Ministry, you go to Parliament for your budget and you have your goods and services vault. So, we have our goods and services vault. And the various Associations that work with us, when they have a tournament to attend; they try to look for their own money. Some of the activities of the tournament are sponsored by the organizers of the tournament. Some activities are not sponsored by the organizers of the tournament.
So, those activities that are not sponsored by the organizers of the tournament and the things that you plan to do at the tournament; they put together a budget and they bring it. We sit down. We review the budget together. I try to get a justification for everything that they plan to do and then I take a decision; which ones I will support, which ones I will not support. Which ones I will encourage them, out of their own resources, they should try and then do. And which ones, government will take up and support them with. So, you agree on what you’ll give them and then ask them to fend for themselves for the rest of the items they want to do you think that publicly you cannot justify the use of public money on and then you approve the budget for them.
KSK: So, what budget was approved?
MA: I’m actually driving. I don’t have the budget on my hands here. So, I’ve said that once we’re back, we would give an account of what happened. But I also think that it’s very bad practice when you’re preparing an abstract to go into a tournament and then every radio station wants you to present a budget so that everybody will see that this is the budget I’m sending.
Going into a tournament is like you’re going into a battle with your opponent. Part of your arsenals in a battle is how much resources you have because the kind of resources you have determines how effectively you prosecute your campaign. To disclose your entire budget just before a tournament so that opponents all over the world will see that [oh] this is how much they’re holding. This is what they have. This is the level of motivation of their players.
We were going into one of their matches and when you’re there you have to have intelligence. My intelligence picked up information to the effect that our opponents were offering their players a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) if they beat us. A hundred dollars each if they beat u! I won’t mention the country. That tells you the level of motivation of players that be because if a player is looking at a 100,000 dollars you know, if he loses the match he doesn’t get that money; if he wins he’ll get that money. He will work very hard, extraordinarily hard. So, it will give an indication of the level of determination of your opponent. And if he knows how much you’re getting, then he’s also in a position sometimes to assess your level of determination to win that match.
So, the issue of how much you have budgeted (how much you’re giving your player as motivation) is not something that before you’re going, you should put out publicly and your opponents know. Meaning the tactical opponent will simply just top up a little to give to his players so that they will be a little more motivated than your players so that at the level of motivation, everybody has some motivation. And then the rest is a question of skills and tactically who will be able to do better.
So, the culture of wanting the Minister to disclose every single item on his budget before a tournament is a very bad thing because it weakens you in terms of tactically how you’ll go into a tournament. But after the tournament, Yes! If you use public money after a tournament, when you come; you’ll have to account.
KSK: Mr. Ayariga, may I ask this. I’d like to ask a few questions here now. Is money the only motivation to play for your country?
MA: It is one of the motivations. [Let’s not] You, you’re sitting in a radio; you love being a journalist, if you were not paid a salary all this while, will you continue to going there.
KSK: I’ve earned it.
MA: Pardon.
KSK: I’ve earned it.
MA: They also earned it when they play. When they play well, they earn it. That’s why the motivation is that win and I will give you. When you win, you earn it.
KSK: Great, great! We’re on the same page on that one. But so, the $25000 given them was earned as you’ve mentioned.
MA: That wasn’t given by government. That’s a GNPC promise to the players. That’s a GNPC promise to the players and they gave them.
KSK: Can I ask you to draw the line for me here? Is GNPC money not State money?
MA: GNPC money is a company that has been formed by government and they’ve chosen to support the Black Stars. And I commend them highly for supporting Black Stars and I’ll encourage other companies to support the Black Stars.
KSK: GNPC is 100% owned by the State, am I right?
MA: But GNPC can decide what they’ll do as part of efforts to promote their corporate image and to support the Black Stars and other causes. And I think that we should stop that habit of wanting to destroy the reputation of companies that move in to support the Black Stars.
KSK: Mr. Ayariga, very respectfully, I am not here to destroy the GNPC. I’m asking you a question this morning [if the State owns GNPC]…
MA interjects: In any case, I’m not the Spokesperson for them. I speak for the Ministry of Youth and Sports.
KSK replies: I didn’t say you’re a Spokesperson. You speak for the Ministry of Youth and Sports, I’m coming to that. Now, you’ve mentioned to us that the 25000 dollars was given to them by GNPC and not necessarily the government, so you want us to leave it there.
MA: It is not the Ministry of Youth and Sports. And I commend them highly for that decision.
KSK: I’m sure they will be proud with your commendation on that decision, but erm GNPC is 100% owned by the State and if they’re giving out money, you want us to believe that it is their own decision and has nothing to do with government. Let’s come to your Ministry.
MA: Let me tell you that the government, to be frank with you; in fact, the President didn’t even know that GNPC was giving the players any money until when he was speaking, and then I gave him (President) a note, yesterday, when we were having the breakfast with the players. In fact, it was only then that he knew that GNPC was giving that bonus to the players. The President didn’t even know. In fact, it was there in the hall that I informed him that “oh your Excellency, GNPC has decided to give a bonus to the players and he asked how much”, then I mentioned to him. And he even asked me; so can I mention that. I said, yes, you can mention it.
GNPC team were in the room. The sponsors were in the room. So, the President had nothing to do with it if you think that it’s the President who’s coercing GNPC [to]…He didn’t even know. It was in the banquet hall that I informed him.
KSK: Mr. Ayariga, it’s not about what I think. I don’t think the President has coerced GNPC to give any money through anybody…
MA: …From your line of questioning, I believe that’s where you’re dragging.
KSK: We’re all not children. That’s true. No please, come on. I don’t think the President has coerced (burst into laughter).
MA: I’m just telling you. The President knew nothing about it and GNPC did it. And then, I commend GNPC very highly for doing this.
KSK: We’ll commend very highly but trust me; I don’t think the President has coerced anybody. I am asking you questions from the point of ignorance. I don’t know and that’s why I’m asking.
MA: And I’ m also giving the information, the facts as I know them because I was personally involved.
KSK: Fantastic! So, I come back to that my point that GNPC is an 100 percent State-owned. It takes a decision and then let’s leave it at that. Let the Ghanaian people decide but let me ask you this about supporters. How many supporters did you fly to Equatorial Guinea?
MA: I didn’t fly any supporter to Equatorial Guinea.
KSK: I mean the Ministry of Youth and Sports didn’t fly anybody?
MA: I was really looking forward to Ghanaians coming to support the Black Stars because each time that we went into a match, we saw the extent to which we had their fans coming all over from their country to come and support their stars. And there wasn’t that many people coming from Ghana and it always felt very lonely even though our boys fought very hard.
And I was thrilled to hear that Ghanaians were coming… to support us in the matches. I don’t know who (brought them), I mean who flew them in. I heard later that some corporate sponsorship enabled some of them to be able to come. I recommend highly.
Indeed, look, if you watched the tape of our match against La Cote D’Ivoire; the stadium was full of people from La Cote D’Ivoire. I mean the hotel I lived, almost the entire hotel was taken by people from La Cote D’Ivoire and they came from Ivory Coast. They were not living there and after the match the number of planes that took off from Bata to La Cote D’Ivoire, you have no idea. The buses that were moving people from hotels to the airport. All Ivoirians and they were very excited.
I think that if we can afford it anytime that our Black Stars are performing, let’s try and go and lend them support. You’ll also been hosting a tournament one day. You also be hoping that other people come and use our hotels and eat in our country. Use our telecom facilities; it’s also tourism when we decide to host a tournament. So, I think that going to watch is good and we should encourage a lot more corporate sponsors of people to go and watch football.
KSK: You just highly commended GNPC for giving the Black Stars players and I’m sure maybe their management a bonus. Now which corporate entity flew these supporters to Equatorial Guinea?
MA: Oh, I will find out but I know that it’s not the Ministry of Youth and Sports. I believe that GNPC was involved. I believe that some others were involved but I can assure you that the Ministry of Youth and Sports had no hand in terms of our budget to fly any supporter anywhere.
KSK: Well, apart from budget; did you facilitate it in anyway the Ministry?
MA: No. It’s foreign travel…Before I left I had a meeting with the Ambassador of Equatorial Guinea to find what the arrangements would be if people wanted to go and support the team. And he said, it was a simple matter. You just come and apply for the VISA and then you pay a VISA fee and they’ll issue a VISA to you.
So, I made that statement public and so, [you know] I think they went and obtained them…Even though I was coming in and going out, I wasn’t paying attention to those issues because we had administratively sorted it out with the Embassy.
And once we were there, we would always receive a call that supporters would be coming. So, we would want to know what numbers are coming so that we can engage the local organizing committee to make sure that some tickets are reserved for them, so that they can get into the stadium when they arrive. Because if nobody helps them to obtain the ticket, when they come and they don’t get into the stadium, then you know it will be painful for people to fly in not to get into the stadiums.
So, we worked with the Ambassador. In fact, it usually used to be our Ambassador there, Mr. Ahinsah; he used to go and then get the tickets. Some for Ghanaians living in Equatorial Guinea because the Ghanaian community would always come and ask for tickets to mobilize Ghanaians who were living there to come and cheer the team up. So, we helped with just making sure that we booked their seat in the stadia.
KSK: Now, it is quite interesting what you’re telling me now because it is at complete variance with what we’ve heard in your absence. Your Deputy told us that your Ministry facilitated this…Chief Director is aware. Some of your officials in your Ministry were aware. Some of the supporters were stranded at the airport. About 250 of them were not able to make the trip and that the Ministry of Youth and Sports was fully aware. It’s not said that it’s paid for it…
MA interjects: Ah! But there’s a difference between being aware that supporters are coming and…
KSK continues: Aware and facilitated; I used another word – facilitated –
MA: Yes, and what do you mean by “facilitated”? Okay, so, you break down the word since I don’t speak good English.
[Laughing]
KSK: Haha! Yeah right. Yeah right, yeah right....
....You knew. You got in touch with some of the supporters’ unions. You encouraged them to bring their passports. Your Ministry got in touch with some of the supporters’ union. You encouraged them to bring their passports. They brought these passports. A contract was given to company called Travel Matters…
MA: Who gave them the contract? That’s where you should be asking. When I say we were not involved, the point that I’m trying to make is that the Ministry of Youth and Sports did not spend money on any supporter to go to Equatorial Guinea…If you hear that we hear that; I mean I was not on the ground and frankly speaking I can assure that the Ministry - because of the decision that we’d earlier taken that government will not send funds - we didn’t make any provision for anybody. Not 1 pesewa of the Ministry was approved for anybody to go and watch the football. So, when you ask facilitate; that is the point of view that I come from that, look, in terms of getting money or whatever to help people to go, we just didn’t get ourselves involved in that.
In any case, I was as I said largely not here. So, how they got their funds; how Travel Matters or whoever was contracted, it had nothing to do with the Ministry of Youth and Sports.
KSK: Now, is it also true that some of the supporters were stranded and had to spend the night at the Ghana Embassy and Ambassador’s house?
MA: They were not stranded. What happened was that they had arranged the flight in such a way that because it’s just a 1 hour 30 minute flight like from here to Tamale, they had arranged it that they would come, drive straight to the stadium, watch the match and then from the stadium drive back t to the airport and fly back to Accra so that nobody incurs any expenditure on hotel and feeding and all those things so that the only thing is the flight seat that you get.
So, they came and…you know, that was the day that we played Equatorial Guinea. So, with that incident that happened in the stadium, we couldn’t leave the stadium. We couldn’t leave the stadium. We were held up for about 3 hours. So the government there had to use helicopters and security to clear the whole town. Everybody went into their homes and then the streets were free, and then they could drive to the airport. So by the time, our fans drove to the airport; the airline said they could not fly again because they had regulations on how many hours the pilot and the crew should sleep and all those things. And because we had delayed in the stadiums, those times had been exhausted and the flight crew had to go and rest. So, they could not fly that night. We should go and come back early in the morning.
And we thought that the safest place to keep them was the Ambassador’s residence and the embassy because the Equatorial Guinea government had sent security to come and protect Ghana’s facilities there. So we had Policemen protecting the embassy and the Ambassador’s residence. So, we thought that was the safest place we could keep our fans. So, we move them there and the following morning, we went back to the airline and then, they made alternative arrangements to bring them (supporters) back.
KSK: Roughly, how many people are we talking about?
MA: Oh, I think from the report I got in terms of ticket booking and that is how I will know how many. They never exceeded 500. No, they never exceeded 500. We made bookings for just 500 and the plane, the aircraft, they used could only take I think either 240 or 250 per flight and they made only two flights. The highest number that ever came was two flights.
KSK: So, we’re looking at about 500 supporters?
MA: Yeah, I don’t think they went beyond that number because…I was involved in trying to negotiate for the ticket reservations for them and that was the number that we tried to get for them.
KSK: And which travel agency was in charge of this?
MA: I don’t know which travel agency was involved. I know that they came with Ceiba. Ceiba is the local airline of [what do they call it] of Equatorial Guinea. It’s a local airline. They have a fleet of aircrafts. They actually fly to Accra, so it was easier. And I think that’s what I can say about it.
KSK: Now, Mr. Ayariga, you are a lawyer and you’re a Member of Parliament. You’re the Minister for Youth and Sports. Is it not curious that 500 of your supporters are going through some hardship in Equatorial Guinea, you make arrangements for ticketing reservation and all of that and you don’t know which Travel agency brought them there?
MA: Oh why? I can choose what questions to ask people. What information I’m interested in; what information I’m not interested in. I can choose. I can determine that and you cannot force me to decide what information I want to know and what I don’t want to know. You want to know, you’re asking. So, go round asking.
KSK: Mr. Ayariga, you’re the Minister. Who should I go round and ask?
MA: I was concentrating on economy. I was only helping out with people who were coming because they’re Ghanaians. So, don’t push me into who…What I can tell you is that my Ministry did not sponsor anybody to come and watch football and that is the remit of my responsibility.
On the contrary, let me tell you something. I feel sad that you want the conversation to be about who sent supporters. I thought that you would happy that our footballers went, sacrificed, exhibited great determination, great team spirit, love for country and did the things that they did and that if you had the opportunity, you would also come and watch them.
I don’t think that you should bastardize those who made an effort to get to the place to come and support and cheer the Black Stars to perform. I thought that that will be where our concentration is now. What lessons do we learn from the determination of these young boys, their sacrifices? The effort they made, how can we console them for the loss that we made in spite of the great effort that we put into. I thought that we will use this useful airtime that you have, that would be the focus.
Let me tell you something, I didn’t send supporters to Equatorial Guinea. So, go look for who sent supporters to Equatorial Guinea. Let’s end the conversation there. If you have some other topic, let’s move on.
KSK: Are you upset?
MA: No, I have been upset with some of you; frankly speaking.
KSK: Including me?
MA: Some of you. Some of you in the media because right from day 1, you have strived to distract us from focusing on what will happen in Equatorial Guinea in terms of our participation in the tournament but we refused to the distracted. We focused on what we were going there to do; to try and win the cup. Even though we didn’t win the cup, the whole world has commended us for such a great effort but still I see that some people have made it their business to cry as hard as they can to take attention away from this great effort of these boys. And to see to what extent they can put useful airtime to discussing matters that I thought in other places, it will not even be the subject of discussion.
KSK: You think some of us are not patriotic enough?
MA: Well, I’m not saying it. The public is listening. The public is watching and I think that they can also judge for themselves what is happening here.
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Mahama Ayariga
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